Passion Of The Christ

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:16 am

Well stated. Definitely two separate issues.

martinfoyle · Post by **martinfoyle** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:47 pm

Mr. Average wrote:I've seen the film. It is a beautiful epic. MOST of the prejudicial comments made about it are untrue. The film is the antithesis of misogyny, portraying women in a very powerful and influential light. Pontius Pilate is portrayed as a principled but political man. He is not portrayed as a weak, snivelling character, but instead he presents a powerful and strong persona, overall.

In a number of scenes the Jewish people are portrayed as benevolent, compassionate, and kind. Simon of Cyrene, Veronica, the wailing women, and more than one of the soldiers who carried out the crucifixion.

I saw the film as a work of art. It was a beautiful thing to behold.
I recommend it.

Just been to see this film and the above perfectly summarises my feelings about it. Fine piece of work, it won't have me going to church too much, still it reassures me about the better aspects of my catholic upbringing.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:37 am

Still haven't seen the film, but I did hear the soundtrack today. Peter Gabriel should absolutely sue. This soundtrack borrows HEAVILY from Gabriel's soundtrack to the Last Temptation of Christ. Some of it, especially in track 1, is note for note. My wife said it's like they took Gabriel's album (called, incidentally, Passion) and added a few Gregorian chants. This won't cloud my ultimate review of the film, but it was strikingly similar.

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:41 am

hmmmmmmm people don't debate the virtues of The Santa Clause???? that's weird, because Jesus and God are just as valid as jolly St. Nick! repeat after me>....*the opiate of the masses.....a massive con to control the peasants and other simpeltons.....*

crash8_durham · Post by **crash8_durham** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:23 am

No repeat after me:

I promise to be different.
I promise to be unique.
I promise not to repeat things other people say.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:14 pm

Is it just me or did Copenhagen Fan call me (and Mr. Average, and lapinjolis, and Martinfolye, and anyone else who believes in God) either a peasant or a simpleton?

Post by **BlueChair** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:16 pm

I think he was referring to the thread as a whole, noise.

The fact that we're having such a heated debate on this film as opposed to something frivolous like The Santa Clause

Having not heard either soundtrack, I can't comment on your specific argument, but if they did rip off Peter Gabriel, then I hope someone will let him know

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:20 pm

The quote about simpletons is a paraphrase from Marx. Cope's clearly saying that religious people are simpletons. In this thread or any other.

Mr. Average · Post by **Mr. Average** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:12 pm

Consider the source(s). Then discount it as pseudointellectual crap.

I get a lot of practice with this technique.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:51 pm

Oh, I wasn't taking it to heart. Just pointing it out. My giant brain and Masters Degree make me feel more than confident that I'm not a simpleton. I just find it amazing how crass people can be with no compunction at all.

Copenhagen Fan · Post by **Copenhagen Fan** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:30 am

My dream in life is to see some religious person going down hard and then I can cackle..."where's your precious God now?"..as they slip into the depths of dispair and doom....I think I'll try that next time I do something really creepy and perverted!

In total seriousness, how can christians think that they are "right", when there's a SHITLOAD of other people in other parts of the world who are buddists and muslims not to mention jews???? To be a christian is basically to say, "we are right, all of the others are wrong, we're the good guys on the good team". Well, wake up and smell the coffee......Darwinism is here to stay and the age of rationality prevents the leap of faith that was created to control the ignorant and superstious masses. I prefer to say "you're all a bunch of idiots, who base their life upon an artificial device that was put in place to keep you in the dark and feed you bullshit until you paid your tithe and worked your ass off in the fields as a part of some work ethic, which was instituted to suck you dry of your dignity and earthly goods". AND you can all stick your religious wars up the ole ying yang.

I know the next step is to ask..."if a bear shits in the woods, can you hear it"...oh that's a whole different argument.

I'm a post modern man who believes in rationality and perversion!!!!!!!!!!

NOIZE why don't you use your "HUGE BRAIN" and Masters Degree and ask yourself the question "why do I believe in God and why do I NEED this faith?"

I remember asking myself the same question as a child. I looked up into the darkness of my bedroom and the ceiling opened up and showed the universe, I realized who big it was and that I was AN ANT, an organism that is programmed to survive and function as a machine of survival nothing more nothing less. I live, I experience small moments of joy, the meet my heirarchy of needs...........I need no faith because I realize my role........I exist and then will perish.

A rope leash · Post by **A rope leash** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:42 am

I have not seen this movie, as I generally wait for all movies to come out on video

I watched The Big Sleep last night. Excellent.

Well, Cope, ya just can't tell some folks. They have to learn the hard way!

Check out the Passion of the Christ thread at this site:

http://www.newsnation.net/religion/

What we have on that board is a few athiests throwing a barrage of logic and reason to religious types who simply reply back with the usual "Jesus loves me this I know for the bible tells me so". It demonstrates that you can't win by using reason on an arguement that is not based on reason.

Thus, it will be so forever, I'm afraid.

Some will say it does no good to banter on this subject, but I don't know. I think it's done gone it's limit here at this board.

Here's my new hangout:

http://www.frankzappa.com

Check out the picture association thread under the "general" catagory in the forum. Zappa fans are so "me". I still love Elvis, but it's a lot more fun over there...

A rope leash · Post by **A rope leash** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:48 am

Post by **spooky girlfriend** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:56 am

Sorry, Rope. I don't buy into the masturbation threat. If that really were true, there would be a lot less kittens in the world.

lapinsjolis · Post by **lapinsjolis** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:31 pm

I think both Rope and Copenhagen should quote another influential man on this thread named Marx-Harpo.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:54 pm

What we have here is a couple of people who are full of such vitriolic hate that they can't allow people who have faith in God to be happy with that. People whose own despair drives them to try to make others desperate.

Rope,

You're not throwing reason and logic at me. You're baring your teeth, growling and trying actively to bite a chunk out of me. It seems that you think if I'm bitten, I'll feel your pain and agree with you about how hard life is and how nothing matters. Then we can wallow together in a nihilist pit of despair.

Sorry, not interested. The truth is that when you take a bite, the most you can get is a bit of flesh. And Cope's right about one thing. My body will perish. It's dust. You can have it.

Understand something, both of you. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I don't hate you. I don't honestly lose a second of sleep over whether or not you agree with me. I'm not an evangelist, nor do I have any desire to be one. Actually, I think a lot of evangelists do more harm than good; most certainly don't speak for me.

You've asked so many times for someone to prove God exists to you. That's so completely ridiculous for you to ask. You prove he doesn't. It's pointless. I'm not interested in that at all. All I want is to know Christ. Whether you approve could not matter less.

Cope,

I've already gone down hard. I've been through more than a few wringers in my life, times when I thought there was no escape and that I was completely ruined. And my precious God was where He always is--deep within my being, letting me know--not that everything will be alright, which is the sugar pill I can't swallow--but that ultimately what happens to me on this planet means just about nothing. That there is much more that this life, this plane of existence.

Again, I'm not expecting you to understand or appreciate what I'm saying. But you asked, so I'm answering. "Why do you believe in God?" Because I know him. Because he takes up residence in my being. Because I have seen him, heard him, felt his presence, and shared those experiences with others. Because he fills up my senses. I can't help but believe in him; to not do so would be the same to me as not believing in oxygen or chocolate. When I'm alone, I can get some sense of his presence. When I'm around other believers, it's synergistic; I can't explain why but the sense of his presence increases exponentially. I have stood with other believers and felt the physical world completely drop away. If this sounds too mystical, I'm sorry that I can't put it into words better. But to deny the experiences would be to choose a lie. "Why do you need this faith?" Because it's the only real, concrete, tangible thing. That's reality. This is temporary (and currently rather unpleasant).

As Frank Black said, "If you want to wallow, wallow." That's your business. But coming in here and hurling insults at people of faith does very little to hurt that faith. It does reveal some things about you, cruelty that even I wasn't aware was there. But that's something you and tours get to live with. To me, it's words on a screen. I'm sorry if they didn't have their intended effect.

P.S. to Cope. It's a Giant Brain, not a "HUGE" brain. Subtle shades of difference, perhaps. But I like to be quoted correctly.

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:01 pm

P.S. to everyone else. I don't nrmally share my beliefs in that detail on purpose. They're very personal to me, and I only did so because I was asked a very direct question. I'm certainly not trying to get a debate started on the question of God's existence. Nor would I be likely to participate in one.

HungupStrungup · Post by **HungupStrungup** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:37 pm

A rope leash wrote:Zappa fans are so "me". I still love Elvis, but it's a lot more fun over there...

You'll have to forgive me for thinking some of that's because they don't know you like we do . . . . .

yet

A rope leash · Post by **A rope leash** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:18 pm

Well, Hung Strung, I think that if you visited the site the could tell that they already know me.

Spooky, just because it's implausable doesn't mean you can't believe it.

Noise, you're right, it's all internal. I think the existence of God is a low probability scenario. I've given all sorts of reasons why I think that way. Of course, I can't prove that God doesn't exist. What I can say is that there are alternate scenarios that do not involve an all-powerful entity, and I think they are far more realistic.

Noise, you said to me that you were not evangelical, and then you proceded to tell Cope about your deep desire to know Christ. The fact is, Christ wants all of his followers to spread the word. That's true as far as your Bible says. If you truly believe, you should be raising a holy ruckus every day. Or at least that's what some Christian outlets teach.

Let's face it. Religion is on every streetcorner. The message varies widely, but it's all supposed "truth". This only one reason why religion has a bad credibilty problem at the moment. When you're looking at it from the outside, it would appear that all religions are false. So, if there is a God, he's got the greatest sense of humour ever.

Anyway, since you all don't like me and I stink I guess I'll just go hang out with Frank. Trust me, I'm used to this.

One more thing. I'm just saying stuff. No one is preventing Noise or anyone from believing anything. To imply that I am not allowing someone to worship their god is complete and utter horseshit. Folks really truly believe in thier gods because religion is a mindfuck.

It is the number one cause of divisions among humans. It leads to all sorts of really abhorent behavior, from racism to war. Somebody should speak out against it.

Of course, there are those who would want you to shut up:

http://www.costellonews.com

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.ph ... ost1372836

"When we are born, each of us gets a ticket to the freak show. Some of us get a front row seat..." - George Carlin

A rope leash · Post by **A rope leash** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:04 pm

http://www.progressive.org/webex04/wx031604.html

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:30 pm

A rope leash wrote:
Noise, you said to me that you were not evangelical, and then you proceded to tell Cope about your deep desire to know Christ. The fact is, Christ wants all of his followers to spread the word.

You must have me confused with some stereotype of a Christian you saw on television. I told Cope what I did because he asked why I believed in God. (More precisely, he asked me to ask myself, but it amounts to the same thing). I would not have shared that information otherwise. Many religious outfits do teach what you said, that Christ wants all of us to go and spread the word, etc. I don't believe that. I don't think needs me to do that for Him. And I don't think He commanded me (or most of us) to do so. I think He told his disciples that they would be His ambassadors to the world and He charged them to do so faithfully. And I further believe that He calls some believers at any given time to do the same. I'm firmly convinced that I'm not one of them. And I have no desire to be one. The folks I see on television claiming to be messengers of God are, most all, I think, charlatans.

A rope leash wrote:Anyway, since you all don't like me and I stink I guess I'll just go hang out with Frank. Trust me, I'm used to this.

Blah, blah, blah. I didn't say anything of the sort. No one else really did either. But go if you want. Everyone needs a break now and then. You're not going to put your departure on me (any more than I put mine on you).

A rope leash wrote:One more thing. I'm just saying stuff. No one is preventing Noise or anyone from believing anything. To imply that I am not allowing someone to worship their god is complete and utter horseshit.

And I implied that where exactly? What I said was that my faith is unshakable by you, that your approval means exactly nothing to me. When did I claim you prevented me from anything? Maybe I implied you'd like to convince me you're right. And Maybe you would. Or not. I don't really care. But the vitriolic hate thing--that was right on.

A rope leash wrote:Of course, there are those who would want you to shut up.

I'm not one of them. Say whatever you want. I don't attack your atheism, but you should feel free to attack my beliefs. It would only prove my point if you did.

lapinsjolis · Post by **lapinsjolis** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:39 pm

Some people tell me I radiate charm.

Really Rope I'm not into being told someone desires my despair or that my faith is false. How would you know? It transcends intellect so what you say about being a mind game or the other colorful compound word is what is false. You lack the understanding nor do you want it and for that I'm sorry. Find your peace where you may.

A rope leash · Post by **A rope leash** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:41 am

Look, Laps, I've been around the block a few more times than you. If you think your religion is true, then you must think other religions are false. You can't have it both ways. Is Hinduism a sham? I'm sure they would say the same about Catholicism. Do you see how the fight starts?

Did any of you read the links? Do you see why your faith concerns me? Do you really think that GWB should be going around saying God put him in the presidency? If you believe God did this, then you should also believe the war is just. Do you see how religion excuses the worst?

Of course, Noise thinks I'm talking about him personally. Every time I bring up some aspect of Christianity that is not so wonderful, Noise comes up to say he is not associated with that particular "brand" of religion. Well, lemme tell ya sumpin. I wouldn't want to be associated with any of them. They made my brother's life miserable, some of them. They sent him to Hell...yes, ASSURED me that this was his fate, and mine too. It's bullshit, and that's just a little bit of it.

We are all tainted by our associations. I'm cool with mine.

bambooneedle · Post by **bambooneedle** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:24 pm

I have to recognize Rope's point about association -- for an individual to publicly state a general group identification is a political choice -- though perhaps subject to some slings and arrows (and this isn't that btw; I'm just making a point) because of it, undeniable (political) benefits come through being "in" as well... and no aware individual can deny it.

crash8_durham · Post by **crash8_durham** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:31 pm

noiseradio wrote:

P.S. to everyone else. I don't nrmally share my beliefs in that detail on purpose.

I say AMEN to that. I don't have a problem with anyone believing in what ever they want but we can all believe all by ourselves. I may agree or disagree with it but I don't need to know either way.

In turn I like to keep mine to myself too.

Elvis Costello Fan Forum

Passion Of The Christ

Have you seen Passion Of The Christ?

The crashing of the pious

Woof!

The thud of the "rational"

The End

WAR

Re: The End

No, I don't want it