Independence Day
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Who Shot Sam?
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Independence Day
We're off to my father's place on the Connecticut coast for two days. Hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable Fourth of July.
Mother, Moose-Hunter, Maverick
Three Americans in your apartment alone, eh?
The vast liberal northward migration in full swing? Not very patriotic.
Me, I'm just going to spend the day meditating on lyrics from "1776"
"Is anybody there/Does anybody care/Does anybody see, what I see?" (it works better if you can imagine William Daniels saying this.)
The vast liberal northward migration in full swing? Not very patriotic.
Me, I'm just going to spend the day meditating on lyrics from "1776"
"Is anybody there/Does anybody care/Does anybody see, what I see?" (it works better if you can imagine William Daniels saying this.)
http://www.forwardtoyesterday.com -- Where "hopelessly dated" is a compliment!
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noiseradio
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"And it's here a Lee, there a Lee, everywhere a Lee a Lee."
I'm going to set off about $10,000 worth of firworks in my brother-in-law's back yard (which is a few acres away fromt he nearest neighbor). The dollar figure isn't an exaggeration; my brother-in-law is quite successful, and he saves up all year for 4th fireworks. The big ones, that go 100 feet into the air and blow up in pretty colors. Someone has to light them, and it gets to be me.
Joy.
I'm going to set off about $10,000 worth of firworks in my brother-in-law's back yard (which is a few acres away fromt he nearest neighbor). The dollar figure isn't an exaggeration; my brother-in-law is quite successful, and he saves up all year for 4th fireworks. The big ones, that go 100 feet into the air and blow up in pretty colors. Someone has to light them, and it gets to be me.
Joy.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--William Shakespeare
--William Shakespeare
For some reason, this by far my least favorite song in the show. Nevertheless, if you do meditate on it long enough, you achieve a kind of patriotic satori in which you forgive the British for taxation without representation and calling cookies "biscuits."noiseradio wrote:"And it's here a Lee, there a Lee, everywhere a Lee a Lee."
http://www.forwardtoyesterday.com -- Where "hopelessly dated" is a compliment!
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Otis Westinghouse
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We use the French word, and you lot the Dutch. Or Swedish. Or something like that. What is it with you lot and French? Aubergine and courgette just don't get a look-in. We have a perfectly good French word in English and you have to go and come up with the stunningly imaginative 'eggplant'. What the fuck? What kind of creature lays a deep purple egg? And you celebrate your independence?!?!? Wouldn't a national day of mourning be more in order?
Well, enjoy it, whatever.
Well, enjoy it, whatever.
There's more to life than books, you know, but not much more
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noiseradio
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Bobster, I don't like the Richard Henry Lee song, either. But it gets stuck DEEP in my head.
My favorite actually, is the one where they all try to get out of writing the Declaration. Can't remember the name of it, but I like that song a lot.
Otis, I plan to celebrate by listening to a lot of mid-80's Bowie. Tell me something. I've always been curious about this. In British History textbooks, what is the American Revolution called? We refer to it as that or The Revolutionary War, but it seems unlikely that the British would. So what is it? The American Colonial Rebellion? And is Benedict Arnold considered a hero? Also, how much of a role does the American Revolution even play in your (much longer and more convoluded) history? Does it get much attention, or is it just mentioned as another blip in the long line of colonies you lost in the course of the steady decline of your once-great empire? Just wondering.
My favorite actually, is the one where they all try to get out of writing the Declaration. Can't remember the name of it, but I like that song a lot.
Otis, I plan to celebrate by listening to a lot of mid-80's Bowie. Tell me something. I've always been curious about this. In British History textbooks, what is the American Revolution called? We refer to it as that or The Revolutionary War, but it seems unlikely that the British would. So what is it? The American Colonial Rebellion? And is Benedict Arnold considered a hero? Also, how much of a role does the American Revolution even play in your (much longer and more convoluded) history? Does it get much attention, or is it just mentioned as another blip in the long line of colonies you lost in the course of the steady decline of your once-great empire? Just wondering.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--William Shakespeare
--William Shakespeare
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ReadyToHearTheWorst
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I don't recall any particular 'slant' being given to the American War of Independence at school. The Boston Tea Party, George Washington and the Declaration are the only details I recall being mentioned.
As you say, it's just another episode in our long, occasionaly glorious, history.
Since we are exposed to a great deal of American TV & movies etc, it follows that the 'popular' view of the Revolution from the UK is prolly sympathetic, to the terrorists
.
BTW long after I left school, I learned that while we were dealing with Napoleon, we found the time to burn down the White House! Now that's a detail that school boys would enjoy, yet it never got a mention.
On a wider note, although we lost 'the colonies', we held on to Canada, and gained India. We weren't doing so badly.
The decline of the Empire prolly started much later, with WWI.
As you say, it's just another episode in our long, occasionaly glorious, history.
Since we are exposed to a great deal of American TV & movies etc, it follows that the 'popular' view of the Revolution from the UK is prolly sympathetic, to the terrorists
.BTW long after I left school, I learned that while we were dealing with Napoleon, we found the time to burn down the White House! Now that's a detail that school boys would enjoy, yet it never got a mention.
On a wider note, although we lost 'the colonies', we held on to Canada, and gained India. We weren't doing so badly.
The decline of the Empire prolly started much later, with WWI.
"I'm the Rock and Roll Scrabble champion"
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Otis Westinghouse
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Funny you mentioned that, Noise, cos I spent the early hours of July 4 watching a VH1 Classic transmission of the Serious Moonlight tour. I think it's available on DVD, too. Actually, I was watching more of a 'U2 backstage' kind of documentary on VH1, much more involving. It's hard to comprehend that the man with the ridiculous hair and suit released Low and "Heroes" a few years before. Poor old Tony Thomspon at the throne. There was also a very good Springsteen 'Storytellers' solo show on from 1-2am. No wonder I'm tired!
Yep, there was no disapproving slant on it all. I think in recent decades we have learned to be suitably ashamed of our colonial past. I remember studying it at school, and it all seemed like a fun story. Sadly, there was no sociolinguistics involved. Pardon ignorance, but who's Benedict Arnold? OK, now that glorious OS X Tiger gives me Wikipedia as a dashboard widget (you PC kids don't know what you're missing!), I shouldn't be so lazy. Get this:
'Benedict Arnold, V (January 14, 1741 – June 14, 1801) was a general in the Continental Army who defected to the British side during the American Revolutionary War. Serving with the American Patriots he became well known for leading successful campaigns and winning battles, but he gradually became disgruntled beginning with his not receiving what he felt was due credit in a raid on Fort Ticonderoga. Some five years later, in 1780, he plotted with the British to take control of the fort at West Point, New York, which would have given the British control of the Hudson River and split the colonies in half. The plot was thwarted, but Arnold successfully avoided capture by Continental forces. Shortly thereafter, he was given a commission in the British Army, and was eventually elevated to the rank of general. His name is a colloquial synonym for "filthy traitor" in the United States, much like Quisling in Norway, or Pétain in France.'
A great man, evidently! Now hands up who knew that Elvis was reffing turncoats in Norway in Green Shirt.
Yep, there was no disapproving slant on it all. I think in recent decades we have learned to be suitably ashamed of our colonial past. I remember studying it at school, and it all seemed like a fun story. Sadly, there was no sociolinguistics involved. Pardon ignorance, but who's Benedict Arnold? OK, now that glorious OS X Tiger gives me Wikipedia as a dashboard widget (you PC kids don't know what you're missing!), I shouldn't be so lazy. Get this:
'Benedict Arnold, V (January 14, 1741 – June 14, 1801) was a general in the Continental Army who defected to the British side during the American Revolutionary War. Serving with the American Patriots he became well known for leading successful campaigns and winning battles, but he gradually became disgruntled beginning with his not receiving what he felt was due credit in a raid on Fort Ticonderoga. Some five years later, in 1780, he plotted with the British to take control of the fort at West Point, New York, which would have given the British control of the Hudson River and split the colonies in half. The plot was thwarted, but Arnold successfully avoided capture by Continental forces. Shortly thereafter, he was given a commission in the British Army, and was eventually elevated to the rank of general. His name is a colloquial synonym for "filthy traitor" in the United States, much like Quisling in Norway, or Pétain in France.'
A great man, evidently! Now hands up who knew that Elvis was reffing turncoats in Norway in Green Shirt.
There's more to life than books, you know, but not much more
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miss buenos aires
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I actually went on a date not long ago with a guy who claimed that Norway heroically fought off the Nazis. I was like, "Wasn't Quisling a notorious traitor? To the point where his name is now synonomous with 'traitor'?" He said, "I'm one quarter Norwegian, I think I know what Norway did during WWII." Later on he said, "I wouldn't say I'm agnostic, I just don't know whether or not I believe in God."
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stormwarning
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The Declaration of Independence was a huge loss to Britain at the time, but when compared to other events in the late 18th century the long term impact on Britain was comparatively minor.
The loss of the American colonies, and of course the cost of the war, pushed Britain into a serious recession. However, the recession didn't lead to reform, mainly because Britain managed to retain the other colonies, but also because Britain under Pitt made a spectacular economic comeback. (In Britain in the late 1700's there was a huge agricultural and industrial growth, fed by unprecedented population growth).
It was the French Revolution in 1789, and France's declaration of war on England in 1793, which was ultimately to lead to the political and economic reform that features most prominently in late C18th British history. By 1800 we'd seen Ireland's political unification with England, the Catholics granted the vote, and the introduction of the electoral changes which would lead to the system of "one man one vote". By 1805, the English Navy had beaten the French at Trafalgar, which allowed them the complete naval supremacy to become the dominant force in European trade, and further strengthen their presence in India, Ceylon etc.
In other words, had the loss of the American colonies created a landslide effect in the other colonies, and inevitably a defeat by France, then 1776 would have been a significant date in British History. But it didn't happen that way.
As a result, the year 1776 is more noted by Brits for the publication of Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations"...
The loss of the American colonies, and of course the cost of the war, pushed Britain into a serious recession. However, the recession didn't lead to reform, mainly because Britain managed to retain the other colonies, but also because Britain under Pitt made a spectacular economic comeback. (In Britain in the late 1700's there was a huge agricultural and industrial growth, fed by unprecedented population growth).
It was the French Revolution in 1789, and France's declaration of war on England in 1793, which was ultimately to lead to the political and economic reform that features most prominently in late C18th British history. By 1800 we'd seen Ireland's political unification with England, the Catholics granted the vote, and the introduction of the electoral changes which would lead to the system of "one man one vote". By 1805, the English Navy had beaten the French at Trafalgar, which allowed them the complete naval supremacy to become the dominant force in European trade, and further strengthen their presence in India, Ceylon etc.
In other words, had the loss of the American colonies created a landslide effect in the other colonies, and inevitably a defeat by France, then 1776 would have been a significant date in British History. But it didn't happen that way.
As a result, the year 1776 is more noted by Brits for the publication of Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations"...
Where's North from 'ere?
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Otis Westinghouse
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miss buenos aires
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Otis Westinghouse
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