New Pope In Town

[Boy With A Problem]

http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/ ... pope-nazi/

A bunch of info on the new Pope in the link above.

[Who Shot Sam?]

Meet the new Pope. Same as the old Pope.

No liberalization on the horizon, from the sound of it.

[miss buenos aires]

Considerably less liberalization, from the looks of it. Is anyone else surprised that there are 1.1 BILLION Catholics in the world? For some reason that sounds like an awful lot to me. Celibate priests good! Condoms bad!

And are Popes usually that old when elected? And do you think they maybe could have picked someone who wasn't in the Hitler Youth brigade?

[BlueChair]

And do you think they maybe could have picked someone who wasn't in the Hitler Youth brigade?

That was my first thought too, MBA!

[so lacklustre]

Vee Haf vays off making you starve to death.

[RedShoes]

And are Popes usually that old when elected? And do you think they maybe could have picked someone who wasn't in the Hitler Youth brigade?

Actually, I think I read somewhere that he deserted the Germany Army....but I could be could be totally wrong.

Edit: yeah, it's here

Anyway, some claim he deserted the Wehrmacht, but either way, he ended up in an Allied POW camp in 1945.

I dunno. I'm quite annoyed with the decision too, so I don't know why I'm defending it

[bobster]

I'm not sure why, but all this talk about the new Pope is making me crave eggs with ham, an English muffin, and Hollandaise sauce.

OLD JOKE:

NUN: Do you think the Holy Father in Rome will ever allow priests and nuns to marry?

PREIST: Not in our lifetime. And not in our childrens lifetime. But perhaps in our children's children's lifetime.

[selfmademug]

So depressing on so many levels. Though I have to say that it's interesting they elected one so old-- I've already seen a report somewhere via Yahoo that talks about him as a 'transitional' Pope, as if they need foment to reach a tipping point! Jeeze.

[LittleFoole]

Means absolutely nothing to me...I'm a Unitarian Universalist, with pagan influence

[scielle]

From http://194.244.5.199/main/notizie/rubri ... 88079.html

But despite his reputation as a fierce enforcer of orthodoxy, and nicknames such as Der Panzerkardinal, he is said to be a gentle, caring soul. With his piercing blue eyes and utter conviction, he also has considerable charisma. He doesn't like rock music, calling it the "expression of elementary passions" and a hot house for anti-Christian sentiment. He is known to be worried about the state of the Church. On Good Friday he bemoaned how much "dirt" and "arrogance" there was in it. At a pre-conclave mass he warned of the dangers of moral relativism, calling on cardinals to choose a pope who would guard the Church against the fickle winds of ideological fashion.

Apparently he's a concert-grade pianist with a weakness for Beethoven, though.

Oh boy...
They should've turned the conclave into a realitiy show. Would've been much more fun.

[pophead2k]

Kinda wish they would have gone with a Latin or South American....those are the only folks who are less 'cafeteria' with their Catholicism, and the main source of nuns coming into orders. Also should be noted that enrollment in the Nazi Youth was mandatory, so kind of hard to judge him by that. Overall disappointed though. His advanced age tells me they were looking for someone short term.

[Boy With A Problem]

found these on another website -

Some Ratzinger quotes:

On Women: "'The Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful. For this reason, the above-mentioned 'priestly ordination' constitutes the simulation of a sacrament and is thus invalid and null, as well as constituting a grave offense to the divine constitution of the Church. Furthermore, because the 'ordaining' Bishop belongs to a schismatic community, it is also a serious attack on the unity of the Church. Such an action is an affront to the dignity of women, whose specific role in the Church and society is distinctive and irreplaceable."


On gay people: "When civil rights legislation is introduced to protect behavior to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the Church nor society at large should be surprised when violent reactions increase. Above all, we must have great respect for these people who also suffer and who want to find their own way of correct living. On the other hand, to create a legal form of a kind of homosexual marriage, in reality, does not help these people."


On abortion: "A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia."

On Jews: (When asked if Jews must acknowledge Jesus as the messiah) "We believe that. That does not mean that we should force Christ upon them. The fact remains, however, that our Christian conviction is that Christ is also the messiah of Israel. Certainly it is in the hands of God how and when the unification of Jews and Christians into the people of God will take place. That the Jews are connected with God in a special way and that God does not allow that bond to fail is entirely obvious. We wait for the instant in which Israel will say yes to Christ, but we know that it has a special mission in history now … which is significant for the world."


On scientific research into cloning: "God will react against that last crime, a last criminal self-destruction of the human being. He will resist the degradation of the human person through the breeding of slave-people. There is a last boundary that we cannot cross without becoming the destroyers of creation itself.”


On sex-abuse by Priests on Children: " In the Church, priests also are sinners. But I am personally convinced that the constant presence in the press of the sins of Catholic priests, especially in the United States, is a planned campaign."

On Buddhism: "In the 1950s someone said that the undoing of the Catholic church in the 20th century wouldn't come from Marxism but from Buddhism. They were right. Buddhism is an auto-erotic spirituality. It seeks transcendence without imposing concrete religious obligations."

On ROCK MUSIC! : " In many forms of religion, music is associated with frenzy and ecstasy. Such music lowers the barriers of individuality and personality, and in it man liberates himself from the burden of consciousness....this type in rock and pop music, whose festivals are an anti-cult with the same tendency...is the complete antithesis of Christian faith in the Redemption. Accordingly, it is only logical that in this area diabolical cults and demonic musics are on the increase today, and their dangerous power of deliberately destroying personality is not yet taken seriously enough..."

[spooky girlfriend]

Sigh. I guess I was hoping for someone other than Ratzinger, but still, he was chosen. I do believe, like you pophead, that they were looking for a short term papacy this time around, after the previous 26 year position by JPII.

I still need my faith, but the opinion of the pope will never be the mainstream opinion of either myself or most catholics.

FWIW, at mass this past Sunday, it was confirmation day for the teens. The local bishop was there, and gave quite an incredible homily. He said that teens had written him and told him what kind of music they listen to. He went out to the music stores and purchased some of the cds and listened to them so he would be aware of what was in their lives. He is 75 years old and looks like he should be about 50. What a really neat guy he is.

The pope is always required to be publicly holy, so of course he has to say certain things. I suppose we'll see what happens. But whatever it is, my faith in God is the main idea here, not my faith in a man or a position.

[bobster]

Spooky and anyone else interested in change in the Catholic church might want to check out this film. http://www.filmthreat.com/Reviews.asp?Id=5223

In retrospect, the writer (who has no relation to me whatever) migh have slightly overrated this film (and look out for the crazy typo!), but still...

[Who Shot Sam?]

On ROCK MUSIC! : " In many forms of religion, music is associated with frenzy and ecstasy. Such music lowers the barriers of individuality and personality, and in it man liberates himself from the burden of consciousness....this type in rock and pop music, whose festivals are an anti-cult with the same tendency...is the complete antithesis of Christian faith in the Redemption. Accordingly, it is only logical that in this area diabolical cults and demonic musics are on the increase today, and their dangerous power of deliberately destroying personality is not yet taken seriously enough..."

He has a weakness for Beethoven yet cannot condone frenzy and ecstasy in music?

And that bit about Buddhism was priceless.

It's gonna be fun having this zealot around for however long he lasts.

[stormwarning]

He went out to the music stores and purchased some of the cds and listened to them so he would be aware of what was in their lives. He is 75 years old and looks like he should be about 50. What a really neat guy he is.

It would have been really cool if he'd downloaded them from Soulseek.

[verbal gymnastics]

They should've turned the conclave into a realitiy show. Would've been much more fun.

What - have a Pope Idol?

[ReadyToHearTheWorst]

They should've turned the conclave into a realitiy show. Would've been much more fun.

What - have a Pope Idol?

... in the Big Poppa House ...

[Who Shot Sam?]

Doesn't seem like the choice of Ratzinger has gone down too well here in the States. I watched "Nightline" last night and Cokie Roberts (a devout catholic) was about ready to jump out of a window. The level of hysteria was really quite amusing. Even the head of Catholic University didn't have much good to say about Benedict XVI, other than "give him a chance". They asked a panel of experts about the choice of Ratzinger on Salon.com and he got faint praise from only one or two of those they polled. The rest were scathing in their assessment. He got slated on Slate as well - good analysis by Jack Miles, a former Jesuit who abandoned the church years ago when he saw what was happening under John Paul II.

[spooky girlfriend]

It would have been really cool if he'd downloaded them from Soulseek.

That's funny.

[noiseradio]

I'm not Catholic, and I don't know who else may or may not be Catholic. But why does it matter to the rest of us whether the pope should be more or less liberal? This isn't a scold; it just ocurrs to me to be curious about this point. If people who choose to believe in the dictates of the Catholic Church are pleased with this pope, then why should those who don't believe in Catholic doctrine care one way or the other? Indeed, why should non-Catholics even worry themselves about what Catholics choose to believe? Ratzinger is a conservative pope, meaning he'll stick with the status quo. People are complaining that he won't budge on the church's teachings on various topics. But why would anyone expect the leader of any religion to hold views counter to that religion's long-held doctrines?

Now, I personally think women and men are completely equal and should be treated as such in all matters of faith. And obviously I like rock music just fine. But I'm not Catholic. Thinking that Catholics should choose a pope who agrees with my views just doesn't make any sense to me. And I suppose if I were Catholic and held the views I hold, I'df have to seriously consider not being Catholic. But that would involve ME changing, not the church.

I have no idea if this makes sense, and I'm not picking a fight with anyone. Just thinking in writing.

[Who Shot Sam?]

I'm not Catholic, and I don't know who else may or may not be Catholic. But why does it matter to the rest of us whether the pope should be more or less liberal?

Because the stances that the Pope (and by extension the Catholic church) takes on issues such as contraception and sexual abuse by clergy affect real people. Whether or not I am a Catholic, if I have a basic concern for the well-being of humanity. I care about the positions adopted by those in power, because they have real consequences. It's like saying that people in the UK shouldn't care about Bush because he's not their president. Yet every decision he makes has a very real impact on what happens in the world.

[Mike Boom]

[noiseradio]

Ah, but Catholics chooseto follow Catholicism. It's still their business. And your point about Bush doesn't hold. If you're not Catholic, how do the decisions of the Catholic church affect your life, honestly? Especially in the UK and the States, where most people are not Catholic? The pope's power is over believers (I know he's a political leader as well, but outside of Vatican City, he has no specific political authority). I think your case is stronger in countries where Catholicism is the official government religion and actually defines civil law. That's a fine point if your case is a separation of church and state. But in the US, the pope can jump up and down all he wants to that no one should use contraceptives. But I know a lot of Catholics who are on the pill or had vasectomies. The ones who don't admit it still manage to have 2 kids. And I don't think they gave up sex, so you tell me. I grew up church of Christ, which taught that drinking was a sin. My parents drank wine with dinner anyway. People decide how many of a religions teachings to actually follow. And if they choose to follow the pope no matter what he says, that's their fault at least as much as it is his.

Here's for instance: Instead of Ratzinger, the conclave chose a guy who thinks abortion is fine, gay marriage is fine, that people should have as much sex as they want with whomever they want as long as they use condoms, that belief in Jesus isn't that important, that Buddhism is as valid as Christianity, and that In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida is the best 17 minutes in music history. You might rejoice, but that person would be betraying Catholic doctirine (except maybe about Iron Butterfly. The "rock is bad" thing was a new one for me). Catholics wouldn't follow that person. At least the vast majority wouldn't. They're rejoicing because they want a leader who believes what they believe and will reinforce it. One pope is not going to be able to dismantle all the things you think he should. And if he did, the religion would cease to be Catholicism. It would be some other animal entirely. I think your gripe is not with the pope, but with Catholicism itself.

[noiseradio]

Follow-up point:

If you really want the Catholic church to change, Ratzinger is actually the best possible choice. Membership in the Catholic Church has been dropping off for years. The influence of the church worldwide is much lower than it has been for decades. As discontented Catholics begin to feel increasingly alienated from their church, the choice of a status quo pope will probably drive them further away. Choosing a radical reformer would shore up support for the very doctrines you want changed.

It's like the gas prices. I'm actually glad they're up. It's a pain in the neck right now, but maybe the pinch people feell in their pocketbooks will spur people to demand alternate fuels more quickly.